London Cycling Campaign

As a cyclist and motorist you have surely noticed the difference in visibility of surroundings. You don't need lights where two pedestrian flows cross and the same applies for cyclists. Heavy, fast, half-blind cars need controlling.

Having said all of which I personally always stop at red but a lot of the time that I see cyclists crossing they are actually causing danger to nobody. (eg pedestrian phase when all the pedestrians have long since crossed).

I saw a cyclist go through a red light yesterday at break neck speed.  Everyone in the car was incredulous.  It’s dangerous to do this at any junction and as a pedestrian/cyclist/motorist I think it gives cyclists a really bad name.  How can we ask for equal rights on the road and then pick and choose when to follow the highway code? We can’t have our cake and eat it.

@Fear4theears - I think thats the crux of the problem. The highway code applies to all and it not down to us to pick and choose.

@paul - Although there are lots of times where there is no danger caused, if a pedestrian sees a green crossing light and runs and gets hit by the bike, thats the danger. If we want exceptions for cyclists it should go though the proper channels so that all road users (including pedestrians) are made aware.

@BoforsGun, couldn't agree more. If there is a green light, it is reasonable to expect that ALL road users are going to stop, noone will be expecting a cyclist to come out of nowhere.  It's even more dangerous if you are visually impaired or have mobility problems.

its a pity then that the ASL reguations ( same offence as jumping red light) do no seem to apply to motorists!

BoforsGun

If we want exceptions for cyclists it should go though the proper channels so that all road users (including pedestrians) are made aware.

Proper channels - absolultely - and the exemption would have to be subject to Strict Liablity so other road users ( especially pedestrians ) would not need to change their behaviour in any way.

Having said all which not a battle that is in any way a priority.

Putting cyclists in the same basket as cars and lorries is downright ridiculous. Cyclists are much more similar to pedestrians.

We need flashing orange cycling lights at intersections and crossings where cyclists can cross but be prepared to stop.

Under the current arrangement, too many cyclists take daft risks, flying through all red lights regardless of the risk at that particular intersection.

Traffic signals have been designed to maintain optimum vehicle traffic flows not cyclists. It's time they were changed to reflect the growing mass of cyclists and to encourage motorists and the fearful to take the plunge.

 

The Issue of stopping at red traffic lights, Over the past 4 decades I have seen alot and alot of different patterns in the discpline of those road users. For example in the last decade I have never seen so many buses drive through red lights! Even those lights with cameras? There are particular traffic light junctions that are deemed too dangerous for both cyclists (sometimes it is too much for newer cyclist) and motor vehicles combined to be stationery side by side and then expect the 2 wheeler to move off whilst those in motor driven simply increase weight on their gas pedal. Of course there are those that will jump lights without care or thought. What should be remembered is that the inner city roads and the rural roads were never designed to cater for cyclist, or for any volume of them, so the lights are for all modes of transport even though in some cases the cyclist is penalised for being just that. There are numerous traffic light jnctions where the waiting times are so overally unrealistic and their timing and frequency only incense all users. The technical team at the local authority clearly haven't thought about the cyclist in their calculations. So you will see cyclists go through. The pedestrians are also a big danger to cyclist and other road users as some will take the chance of making it (hopefully) within a split second of causing an accident.

I'm not sure you can call pedestrians a big danger. Any idividual can be a pratt and run out at light, roads, cycle lanes etc but as general group not as dangerous as cars or cyclists going through red lights.

Think City of London police were carrying out an operation on cyclists jumping red lights this morning. Saw 3 cyclists stopped by the side of the road with police bikes/cars being written tickets by the coppers. Can't wait to see the ASL clampdown they'll carry out tomorrow against motorists, oh hang on - maybe not!

There are numerous places in London where a high percentage of cyclists completely ignore red traffic lights. It is fair to say the occasional motorist will run a red light but as I said there are lots of cyclists who do it very regularly and well after the light has turned red. How can we cyclists expect to be safe as well as command the respect of other road users if many of us completely disrespect the rules of the road? It seems to me that the only way this can be stopped is to licence cyclists which of course would contravene one of the joys of cycling but they would only have themselves to blame.

What sort of example does this send out to young children cyclists?

I note that this website is campaigning agianst the "lethal lorry", maybe they should campaign against "lethal cyclists".

I wrote to the email address shown on this site on 18/10/11, raising the issue of cyclists ignoring red lights but as yet I haven't even had the courtesy of an acknowledgmement let alone a considered reply.

To the people on this thread who are talking about pedestrians, let us not forget that pedestrians have been killed by cyclists. There have to be rules of the road otherwise it would be mayhem and so dangerous us cyclists wouldn't stand a chance. There is no excuse to ignore red lights and all those of us who do so should be ashamed of themselves.

 

This post was edited by idkwia at 10:35pm 26 Oct 2011.

I detest cyclists who don't stop at red. In fact I have noticed a trend. Most are male, however female cyclists without helmets also offend. Sorry to any of you who are law-abiding and who fit these categories. Some do it because they can (difficult to trace as cyclists are not licensed) Some do it to speed up their journey. Some do it because they are simply copying each other. But some do it as they are trying to make a point -ie, the lack of respect from authority in not providing safe and appropriate routes for cycling. Much as we might all agree with the latter issue, this is no excuse because ANY cyclist is the potential subject of abuse from drivers who are ever hungry for a hook to hang their cyclist hatred on. And remember drivers have the upper hand when it comes to using their vehicle as a weapon. Don't do it. And yes, police please punish this offence. It has got to stop, literally.

Does anybody know on a pelican pedestrian crossing on the lights visible to pedestrians what a green bicycle in addition to the green person means? Does this indicate you are able to cycle across the crossing (from pavement to pavement) and does it also indicate the pavement being a designated cycle path?  One example in particilar is Gants Hilll roundabout on the A12 which is a busy roundabout for a cyclist in the rush hour.

If so does this also mean you are able to transition from being on the road to the pavement over the crossings and back onto the road the other side of the roundabout ?!

Best Regards,

Kevin

If there is a green bicycle as well as a green person you have a "toucan" crossing that can be used by bicycles as well as pedestrians. The footways on both sides should have cycle tracks OR shared use markings and some way of getting there from the road. (You shouldn't cross a stop line to get there though)

I am absolutely sick of cyclists that 'think' it must be safe to whizz through a red light because they cannot see anyone - what a load of nonsense.

As well as this I have been in Putney for 6 months and in that time several cyclists have sped past me whilst the crossing was on red. The worst of it being that every time I have had dog with me, and these so called cyclist have missed him by a matter of inches. If any of you cyclists ever hit him I would make sure you are prosecuted and hopefully go to prison. Morons.

Prior to living in London (I'm from Birmingham) I was very pro-bike, having even spent part of my career within the cycling industry. Thanks to the behaviour of certain cyclists I have been turned against cycling so thanks very much to the ignorant London idiots who continue to give cycling a bad name.

 

 

"Thanks to the behaviour of certain cyclists I have been turned against cycling so thanks very much to the ignorant London idiots who continue to give cycling a bad name."

 

I do not condone cyclists jumping red lights at all.

Infact it makes me mad when I've stopped legally, then are harassed by illegal motorists, then a cyclist goes past on red!.

The irony of jumping red lights is lost on many drivers I chat to from within the ASL's after they have entered on red and in law "jumped the lights." The law is meant to be there for all, motorists too

But by your logic above I assume you now detest, Car, lorry, bus, and taxi drivers to name but a few,

as well as..... dog walkers. ( I assume your dog is always kept under control). I often have more sympathy with the dog than the owners.

There are many "ignorent" people out there not just cyclists.

Birmingham is no different, have you cycled down the Bristol Road in the rush hour?

Wesselwookie

Actually the Highway Code is NOT the law. Only those parts which say "you MUST ....." correspond with legal requirements. The rest is advice.

It's in the Highway Code you stop at red lights it doesn’t say if there is no traffic or pedestrians the cyclist can go. Those lights aren’t just to change colour and be pretty they are there for your safety.

It's the law people!

Running red lights is idiotic behaviour which completely discredits cyclists in the eyes of the non-cycling public and reflects really badly on all of us.

When (not 'If') the day comes when the number of cyclists far exceeds the number of motorists on London's roads (as cyclists did in China before the mass love affair with cars started there 15 or 20 years ago), it will be physically impossible for a rogue cyclist to cross a junction against the flow of cyclists going in the other direction. Bring it on I say. Maybe then these idiots will get real and learn a bit of respect - for other cyclists and for for other road users generally.

In the meantime, if I kill a cyclist whilst driving my car because s/he has run a red light, it will be their fault not mine. They will be dead. I will have to live with the trauma of that experience for the rest of my life. How selfish is that ???!!!

I commute to work in Vauxhall and see all manner of poor cyclist behaviour from the gyratory system to Lambeth Bridge.  

In particular, I see cyclists cycling through pedestrian crossings, blocking pedestrians' paths as if it is a right.  I am a non-commuting cyclist and I always dismount at crossings.  Do commuting cyclists regard themselves as some higher form of life which can do whatever they want, trampling over others?  

I also see shoals of cyclists jumping the lights along Albert Embankment and getting quite aggressive with anyone who tries to remonstrate with them. 

Yes, it's hypocritical to expect other road users to respect your right of way and then refuse to observe a stop line.

However the links between riding attitudes, risk-taking and accidents are well established (Roadcraft, Chapter 1). Eventually - if sadly - the problem will be taken care of by a Darwinian process.

On a well designed road there would be no incentive for a cyclist to go through a red light.

In many cases traffic lights are unnecessary; zebra crossings and uncontrolled priority junctions can be used instead. It means that pedestrians, cyclists and motorists do not have to wait unnecessarily. (Camden has successfully removed a set of traffic lights on Maple Street, ending the absurd situation where cyclists going strraight ahead had a red light while the adjacent motor vehicle lane had a green light in case the motor vehicles wanted to turn right across the cycle lane).

The pedestrian / cyclist delay at toucan or pelican crossings should be minimised to reduce the temptation to cross on red (or replace the toucan with a zebra crossing / cycle priority crossing).

Cycle paths should bypass some traffic lights designed for motor vehicles (e.g. for turning left, or going straight at a T junction, or if the main purpose of the traffic lights is to assist large vehicles in turning corners).

At major junctions cycle and motor traffic should be segregated so that cyclists feel safe when crossing, and the timings should also favour pedestrians and cyclists so that they are not unduly delayed and tempted to cross on red.

In Holland they go one step further by making the green light for cyclists come more quickly when it is raining. That is because they like their roads to be safe and welcoming so that everyone can walk or cycle without fear.

 

Upon the conduct of each, depends the fate of all.

Red lights apply to all road users. Simple as that.

I'd also like to see cyclists stopping in the boxes which the councils have painted on the roads at tax payer's expense. Huge great boxes with a nice picture of a cyclist - then you see somebody go straight through that and stop on the pedestrian crossing. Thus giving pedestrians a reason to dislike cyclists.

Bad manners are common place in London. The only way this can be addressed is by the individual.

Please can everyone consider how much longer it takes to get to your destination if you stop at lights. Do you really need to get home an extra two minutes quicker? I'm sure if you miss two minutes of Ant and Dec you'll live, you won't if the Number 9 hits you.

Why is so much attention paid to cyclists going through red lights when vehicles stopping in the area reserved for cyclists is totally ignored?

Why do urban planners ignore cyclists when mapping out junctions so as to make it dangerous for cyclists who have to stop alongside traffic?

Why dont we ask those questions?

I'll stop going through red lights when lorries/motorcycles/cars/vans stay out cycle lanes and boxes at junctions....which of course isnt going to happen...

The problem is it is never a black and white argument. I agree with many cyclists who want to get the 5-second head-start, but I totally disagree with the idiots that race through lights skimming pedestrians etc becaus ethey don't want to stop. 

I think the government should adobt some other countries approach and give cyclists a head start at lights. And then totally clamp down on those that don't even bother to stop. 

I do not own a car, I gave it up in total favour of cycling. I have 2 children and a wife and I manage fine. So I want to make it clear that my favour is 100% with cyclists and their protection. 

On a side note...
It is interesting (yet worrying) how many drivers manage to spot cyclists jumping red lights, riding at night without lights etc, yet in the event of an accident with a well-lit law-abiding cyclist, still use the excuse "I didn't see them"!

I completely agree with the point prrabbitt.

There is absolutely no excuse in flying through a red light at a junction without possibly being able to know what is happening ahead. Whenever you see this it really is a heart in the mouth moment.

For myself though, i consider myself to be a very safe and observant cyclist who always is vigilant to others around and especially vigilant to my own safety.

I cycle to work the same way every day, to and from work. I have learnt the patterns of the traffic lights so know exactly where traffic (and pedestrians) will be coming from when.
I now know when the lights are going to change and it enables me to get out onto the junction before the mass line of buses and vans behind me has chance to move.
Generally by the time they catch me I'm over the junction nice and safe in the bike lane.
The times I've got to the junction slightly late and caught the lights just as they've changed to green has been some of the scariest moments on my bike.
There is not enough room on the junction for the amount of traffic using it so you've got buses stopping to turn right, vans swerving round the buses to go straight over the junction and also traffic going left too.
Navigating your way safely through that can be simply terrifying. 
I think that this again shows how badly our roads are set out for cyclists! 

I'm pretty sure that 99% of cyclists out there aren't the malicious, maniacs that some people here are suggesting.

Also, I don't see the difference between this and pedestrians just walking out from behind buses in the middle of the street.
The other day, I saw a cyclist moving up the cycle lane on a busy street when a pedestrian appeared from behind a bus and walked straight into the side of them knocking them straight off their bike.
And before someone says this doesn't happen as much as cyclists skipping red lights, I'd say that I have to swerve a wandering pedestrian pretty much on a daily basis.
There's no law or fine etc to prevent pedestrians from walking on roads which i think comparatively is wrong. 

 

For info, (and honesty). This morning I recieved a threat via another site on a different topic and realised that having an honest opinion using a real name is dangerous on forums. So I have had to create an alias for my username.

Thank you.

Many more cars than bikes cross red lights. The vast majority of drivers will "nick" the first couple of seconds of red because they believe the opposing traffic flow will not have started. Mostly, that calculation is correct but when it isn't, a collision is the result and many are killed or injured in these circumstances. Cyclists, by contrast cross on red when their eyes and ears tell them it is safe to do so. The result is that nobody in London is ever killed or seriously injured by bikes crossing red, nor are the cyclists themselves ever killed or seriously injured.

I quite agree about motorists (and motorbikes) not observing ASLs and police cars occasionally sit in them too. The rules are never enforced yet you rarely hear motorists grousing about that nor about other drivers jumping the lights or approaching the lights at great speed. Funny that. Cyclists on the whole don't kill people - car drivers of course do (killed and seriously injured in the thousands). By the way I don't jump the lights either - it does no good to our image.